Transcript

SPEAKERS

Catherine Woodling, Scott Muir 

Catherine Woodling 

So I was kind of laughing at the name of this podcast. You know, I was thinking it should be, What Can't You Do with That? What can't you do with a humanities background? Because it really does give you the flexibility and the background and knowledge to do anything that you want to do. Who knows at 18 what they want to do? I guess there's the unicorns. There are some unicorns out there that really know what they want to do immediately, and they can focus on it. But I also think about the people who thought they knew and they were very specialized from the beginning. And then they are stuck in careers they don't love. And it's really hard to then kind of shift. But like a background in humanities, a background in writing, a background in collaboration, a background in critical thinking and empathy. That really opens the world to you.

Scott Muir

This is What Are You Going to Do with That?, a podcast where we explore everyday folks' decisions to study the humanities as undergraduates and their pathways to fulfilling careers. I'm Scott Muir of the National Humanities Alliance, an organization dedicated to promoting the value of the humanities on campuses and in communities. Today, undergraduates often feel pressured to determine the precise career path they plan to pursue before they even set foot on campus. It's understandable why students and parents feel the need to have a career plan in place from the outset. A clear trajectory seems comforting and motivating. But having that kind of clarity at 18 is simply not realistic for most students. In fact, about four out of five college students change their major at least once. So while it may feel like you're supposed to have it all figured out, the student who knows exactly what career they want to pursue and follows through with that plan is definitely the exception, not the rule. Perhaps this is all for the best. After all, most careers do not follow a precise blueprint. They evolve and unfold through ongoing exploration. For most students, a college education is less about settling once and for all on a singular career path, and more about building a strong foundation for continued discovery and growth. In this episode, we meet Catherine Woodling. Like most students, Catherine entered college with a limited range of career fields in mind. As a child of a lawyer, practicing law was her default ‘plan A.’ As Catherine followed a natural interest in the humanities and selected her courses at the University of Arizona, including a double major in political science and Spanish, she acquired knowledge and skills that prepared her for the legal profession, and any number of alternative careers. Meanwhile, she began volunteering for the campaign of a little known candidate running for mayor in her hometown, Atlanta, Georgia. An experience that changed the entire trajectory of her career. Fortunately, Catherine found that her education had equipped her with the tools she needed to find success on this unexpected path. Let's return to her story now. 

How did you choose to major in political science?

Catherine Woodling 

So my mom was an attorney in Atlanta. She was happy in the law. Has done well for herself and our family. And so I always kind of thought about law as my future. Not because I necessarily had a huge passion for it, but because I was familiar with it. And so when I became a freshman, I had no idea what I wanted to study. So when I stepped onto the University of Arizona’s campus, I really spent the first semester just taking those prerequisite courses, trying to get a feel for the different options. But I kept coming back to law. But they didn't really have a pre-law major, it was more of an advisory. And so when I talked to some of those folks, they said, “Well, what we do is we try to tell you what classes you should take, and what things you should focus on to make you more attractive to law schools. And that wasn't really what I wanted to do. Because I wanted to pick classes that I was interested in, first of all. And so I thought, what other things can I focus on that could get me to that end point of law school? And my RA in my dorm, who was a year older, and she’s still one of my very dear friends, was majoring in political science. And she encouraged me to take a couple political science classes within the first year. And I just was fascinated by it.

Scott Muir 

And it looks like you picked up Spanish maybe a little bit later?

Catherine Woodling  

From the Spanish side, it goes all the way back to elementary school. My mom would drive me to school, and she would play Spanish/Latin music all the time. I loved it. I was fascinated by it. I wanted to know what it meant. I love the culture. I love the music. I loved the language itself. There are 580 million people in the world that speak Spanish. I mean, when you have something like that, a number like that, and you travel, it really does open up your experience in a much more meaningful way. I was at the University of Arizona in Tucson. We're about 30 minutes from the Mexican border. And so Spanish is a prevalent language in Tucson. It’s important from a practical perspective, because many of the people I interacted with on a regular basis spoke Spanish. And that’s even here in Atlanta. If someone is speaking to me in English, and I think they may be a Spanish speaker, and I respond to them in Spanish, you know, you see their eyes light up. You see someone who now thinks that you respect them a little more, because you know their language. And that's really important. So that kind of opened the door to my thinking a little bit more. I thought, maybe not law school, maybe I do international business? Maybe I go, you know, in a different direction, that can incorporate my language a little bit more.

Scott Muir  

Are there particular courses that stand out that made an impact on you?

Catherine Woodling 

I took a class on philosophy of law that was really fascinating. It studied the works of Plato and Aristotle and others. I really found that interesting. And then the ones that were the most interesting to me, were really focused on diversity and politics, diversity in the law, women in the law. And that's where I started to really want to focus my efforts, to take more and more classes that focused on diversity in politics, which ultimately landed me where I had my first job. After my freshman year of school, [I was] hoping to intern for Governor Barnes who was the governor of Georgia at the time. And I had a connection there through a friend from high school. And I thought, well, this is a great way to kind of use this political science knowledge I'm gaining in a meaningful way. And I got home and he said, “Sorry, you know, we actually overenrolled our intern program and we're not going to have something available for you.” And my heart just dropped. What am I going to do this summer? And there was a woman running for mayor who was a relative unknown to most people who weren't really in the political circles, Shirley Franklin. And she had a campaign headquarters about two miles from my house. And I literally went over to the campaign headquarters, knocked on the door and said, “What can I do?” And that was really the start of my career, and has been really the thing that has led me to where I am today, because it has changed the entire trajectory of my life. She won the election by like a handful of votes. So I interned in Shirly Franklin's administration, first on her campaign, and then for three more summers as an intern in her mayoral office in the office of communications. And it's funny, because I was put in communications because I had worked in that field during the campaign, but not because I had any particular communications schooling. And so I really gained most of my communications experience on the ground in the Mayor's Office of Communications as an intern. But I will say, the whole time that I was doing this, I still, in my mind, thought I was going to law school. After graduating, I took a year off and, and worked for Mayor Franklin in her office and did external relations and international affairs and lobbied at the Georgia State Capitol and did all that really cool stuff that you do as interns. And [I] applied to law schools and was ready to go. And Shirley came to me and said, “Are you sure you want to go to law school?” And it's the first time that I had actually considered that maybe that wasn't my path. She said, “Well, I want you to stay.” And so here I was, what, 22 years old. And she made me her Media Relations Officer, which is essentially the press secretary, which at 22 years old is something that I never imagined where I would be. It's also something a lot of people around me were surprised by. But I think one of her best qualities was that she did give young people a chance. She could see potential in people and she would help those folks grow to that potential. And so I'll be forever grateful for her giving me that chance. But I worked as her Media Relations Officer until she termed out of office in 2009. But that's how I got into communications which was quite by accident.

Scott Muir 

Well, and you had proven yourself, right? I imagine she put you in that position, because she had seen you demonstrate the strong communication skills you had developed through your education.

Catherine Woodling 

That's right. And I think she also saw–I mean, we did a lot of collaborative learning at Arizona. So I can probably remember, you know, a dozen classes where we had group projects, kind of project-based learning type things, that’s what you would call it these days. And I think that really set me up to succeed in a position where I'm working as a team. You know, I'm working on behalf of a mayor, an entire administration, and an entire city. You can't go out on your own and be successful in that way. Which is something that kind of goes against what you learn when you're young. People kind of focus on your individual successes. But really, it's the team success that is something to be proud of. And that's something that in our case, could change the trajectory of a city. Well, that was an amazing part of my career. I was on call 24/7. We had quite a few things happen during my time with Mayor Franklin. Of course, we're overhauling the water and sewer system. And so there was a reason for that. Our infrastructure was crumbling and had been neglected for many, many years prior to her administration. And so we had some floods in some of the economically disadvantaged communities in Atlanta that were really, really bad. And so we had to really work to address that in a way that was honest and fair and took into account that a lot of the more economically disadvantaged communities had been struggling with a lack of investment for decades and decades and decades. And that's something that I actually think about now in my current job. It was quite an experience. Something I would never forget. And really gave me the communications—I always say it was kind of my master's in communications on the ground. Because I was kind of thrown into the fire there. I didn't exactly know what I was doing at first, but got quite good at it over time. But when you're standing in front of a reporter, 20 minutes after they tell you about something you're needing to respond to. I mean, you have to really be on your toes and put the information together. I mean, that's when your critical thinking skills really come in handy. Or when you're standing in front of the press during a time of crisis, how to empathize with folks, how to really put together a meaningful communication for people who are relying on you to make them feel safe, to make them feel okay, to make them feel like you're going to make a change.

Scott Muir  

Do you think your political science major helped you to think through how your communication might be received by different folks in the community, to help you make sure you don't make a misstep?

Catherine Woodling  

Yeah, you had to think about not making a misstep. But also, you had to do it quickly. You had to get the information out very quickly and it had to be accurate. And so you had to really think strategically about how you're saying it and really focus it on the correct audience. And sometimes have several messages for different audiences, just to ensure that you are saying the right thing. From the Spanish side, knowing the background about a culture or a group of people that's not yours, being able to empathize and to feel it and to understand it, certainly makes you a better leader when you're working with people of all different diverse backgrounds. Because you can really direct the right resources to the right needs. And you're not just trying to put a band-aid over something that doesn't really resonate.

Scott Muir 

Okay, so Shirley Franklin's term ends. Tell me about how you evaluated your next steps.

Catherine Woodling  

I just started kind of poking around looking for work in communications that would also provide me access to work in the community. Because my heart has always been in the community. I lead many of the community service opportunities in Atlanta at my high school. It's something I did with my family. It's something that was very meaningful. So I was searching online and found this amazing opportunity at the Home Depot Foundation. At the time, the Home Depot Foundation was focusing its work on green building, and ensuring that families who were economically disadvantaged had access to the latest and greatest technology in green building in order to then provide them some savings over the life of their homes. It was fascinating work. And I was happy to be there on the ground floor with him as I did that. The foundation shifted its mission in 2011 to focus on providing homes and resources for American veterans. Home Depot is an employer to 10s of 1000s of US veterans. And so they wanted to find a mission for the foundation that would resonate well with its associates. And so we started working with veterans, still providing kind of the best in technology from green building, but into homes that were also modified for disabled veterans and their families, that would provide people with access to better homes and more adapted homes. It was great to be able to really get on the ground and meet people and learn about people and learn about their stories. And then help them into these homes that would provide them greater independence and sustainability, both from the green aspect, but also sustainability in their lives. But my career at Home Depot Foundation then shifted, and so I was promoted onto the corporate communications team, and was focusing primarily on crisis communications. Now, that's something as you can imagine, after working with Mayor Franklin's office for an entire two terms I was pretty familiar with. And so they tapped me thinking, you know, this girl's got this, she's going to handle this. The things that we worked on range from like a rabid Fox attack to a guy who was using saws on himself in the store. Crazy stuff! All over the country. It was wild. But it was really interesting work. And that paired with my experience in Mayor Franklin's office has made quite the crisis expert. And I can't think of another career that would have been better for me at that time for sure. It took all of the skills that I had put together over, what, a decade's worth of employment and school, and really brought them all together in one place. And then continued to grow on that.

Scott Muir 

Okay, so then tell me about what brought you to the East Lake Foundation.

Catherine Woodling

A recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn, and said, I've got, you know, talking about this position in East Lake. And I talked to him on my commute home on 285. I bet he could hardly hear me. But he started telling me about this position at the East lake Foundation. And it just started to click. I started thinking, oh my gosh, this could be that perfect job for me. This could be that job that's really the perfect conversion of my professional skills in communications and my real thirst and dedication to community building, community service, etc. And so I thought, well, why not just interview. It was a really tremendous interview and I left thinking, “Okay, I've got to go there. I've got to do this.” So Eastlake is the farthest Eastern community in the city of Atlanta before you get to the Decatur, Georgia border. In the [19]70s, the city of Atlanta and the housing authority purchased some land in East Lake and developed East Lake Meadows, which was a public housing development with hundreds and hundreds of units. But more than half of them, very quickly, were uninhabitable. There were families that were placed there that had high hopes and dreams and aspirations. But were really struggling as a result of the lack of investment in their community for many, many years. And the East Lake Foundation was established by Tom Cousins, who was a real estate developer here in Atlanta and philanthropist in his own right. At the time, in 1995, there was a $30 million drug trade. The employment rate, employment, not unemployment, was 13%. There was a very, very bad violent crime problem. And frankly, residents were being taken advantage of on a daily basis. The public housing was torn down and replaced with 542 mixed income apartments, half of which were leased subsidized by the housing authority and half that were market rate. And the idea was that you wouldn't know who in the community was relying on a subsidy and who wasn't. In 2000, they created Charles R. Drew Charter School, which started as a K-5 [school], expanded to K-8, but not until after we had really doubled down on early education. Because what we had found in our research was, early education, especially in areas of low income, was an indicator of success in both elementary, middle, and high school. And that students who didn't have a high quality early educational experience were not ready to learn to read in kindergarten, and were not ready to learn from reading in third grade. And so we started partnering with two early education centers in East Lake. And then opened the High School in 2014. We had our first graduating class in 2017. The majority of the students were economically disadvantaged, many of whom were first in their family to graduate from high school. And 100% of them graduated and 100% of them were accepted to college. The secret sauce in all of this is what we call the community quarterback. And in our case, it's the East Lake Foundation. And the community quarterback's role is really to pull all of the partners together. So, you know, there are a lot of communities that have a high quality school or they have mixed-income housing, but it's really how do you pull everyone together and work towards a common goal. And that's what really works with our model. There's definitely a need for workforce housing in Atlanta, as there is in most cities. We are providing equitable opportunities for folks, for children and families at the villages of East Lake, with the goal of allowing them to stay and not be displaced. What we found is, over time, as the neighborhood has changed, the market rate has also increased. But in East Lake, our hope is that families will move in. And if they're in the subsidized unit, be able to take advantage of some of the programs we offer, and be able to move into that next level of housing, and then into that next level of housing. And perhaps homeownership if that's their goal, and create some sort of generational wealth through homeownership. And we are currently, and this is kind of hot off the presses, working with the Atlanta Land Trust on a single-family home model. We're excited about that to provide some single-family homeownership opportunities for our families as well. And so they can grow that generational wealth and they don't get displaced. We work with a very vulnerable population that has been disproportionately affected, one by COVID. But two, by the recent civil unrest and political upheaval. But what I've recognized is that none of this is really new. These struggles are not new, especially for people of color, these are things that have been going on forever. It's really been an interesting couple years. And we've shifted the way that we do our work. And we've always kind of used a racial equity lens in our work, that's just part of our model. But we've really been intentional about it recently, to ensure that we're doing all that we can to help and to dismantle some of those racist systems and policies and structures that have held people back for generations.

Scott Muir 

You've gotten to do some really amazing work. And I'm thinking about how you started with a familiar model for career success in the law. Can you talk a little bit about how your conception of what success looks like, for you, has evolved, and how your background in the humanities may have shaped that process? 

Catherine Woodling

Yeah, so I think most people kind of go into their careers, thinking that success is directly tied to finances. At least when they're young. You're like, “Oh, I want to make money.” But as the money became more consistent, and I became more comfortable in the life that I was building, it really was more about fulfillment in the work that I do, both in my personal and professional life. Like being truly in a place where I want to go to work, where I want to help people, where I want to make changes and do better and grow and learn. That's what it was all about. And that's really how I define success these days, in addition to obviously, the professional piece of it, but in my personal life, giving myself the time and space to give back to the community in a meaningful way is really what kind of revs my engine. That keeps my soul full. You know, at this point in our lives, most information you want to know can be found on a computer, right? So you can Google anything and find out anything. But it's really like the creativity and innovation and critical thinking and research and empathy and all those things that you learn in the humanities that will make you stand out and make you more successful in your career. And as a result, be more fulfilled in that career because you are able to kind of take a different view than some other folks who may be more specialized. So I think it's really important to go into a field that interests you and gives you that fire in your belly to do more and can provide you kind of a launching path for multiple careers. And can provide you, I think, in some cases, an even better background to do some of those more specialized things. But I've heard people even recently say, “Well, what are you going to do with a history degree? What are you gonna do with a religion degree?” And the truth is you can really do anything with it. 

Scott Muir

Since recording this interview, Catherine was named Deputy Executive Director of the East Lake Foundation, and is now serving as its chief executive in an interim capacity.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

career, people, community, Atlanta, Spanish, thought, students, families, humanities, started, communications, foundation, law, homes, political science, franklin, provide, success, work